Heavy Hitters!

Chisom wrote:Thank you local judge bought and paid for by the teachers union.

I would like to see the issue brought up in a general election. Would be very suprised if it did not pass by a HUGH margin.

Yes, only to be overturned by another Judge after it's passage.

Used to have a great deal of respect for teachers. Or at least for most of them. That has pretty much vaporized now. Any group who holds themselves above the rest of us is instantly suspect. What are they trying to hide? Why do they feel so entitled to behave badly at our expense? Are they just nuts?

Obviously the unions do not speak for everyone, but they are the designated mouth piece for teachers. Until teachers who do not agree with this position stand up and make themselves heard we can only take what the unions say as representing ALL teachers, or at least the majority of teachers.

Here's an idea for all the teachers out there: For every dollar that WE must pay for court costs to fight you on this, one dollar will be deducted from your pay. WE who pay your salaries cannot afford to pay you, pay for your lawyers, pay for your union, and pay the attendant expenses of forcing you to do the right thing.

Just pee in the cup already!

What gets me is we tell our kids "Just say No' and "Don't do Drugs" but when it comes to setting a good example like stepping up and being drug tested they hide behind the constitution. What are the kids thinking. Our local media ought to go around and ask the kids what they think about their teachers backing down and refusing to be tested. I think they are refusing to be tested because there is a problem. I know Doctors, Lawyers, nurses, police, politicians, and numerous others that have used drugs in the past and might still be, so the problem is there. And I know for a fact that my kids teacher now doesn't why because she is a 70 year old Catholic Nun. I can't say that for the public school teachers. Especially with the ones that have been in trouble with the law over the past 2 years. In my opinion the teachers are showing their true colors and actually do not care about the kids.

TimeEnuf2 wrote:
One quote that I heard on the radio this morning from a teacher, sums up the teacher's position.

"It is an insult to our profession to be drug tested"

Let me translate this quote for the dumb masses:


"We are better than you, and just because you have to pee in a cup, doesn't mean we should."

I disagree with the statement from the teacher you quoted but I also disagree with your interpretation.

Many teachers are sick and tired of the disrespect seen everyday from the students as well as their parents. And most are seeing this issue as just another way to disrespect the profession as it comes down to a trust issue - either you trust us with your children or you don't. And by requiring us to pee in a cup, obviously you don't trust us.

Sometimes on my more aggravating days - I can appreciate this viewpoint - but for me, at least, it usually isn't about the trust issue.

My opposition, as I've stated here and on the radio yesterday afternoon, is to the interference from the government and the constitutionality of the drug test. I don't consider the judge to be "in the unions pocket" for his decision - I consider him to at least be willing to research the constitutionality of the issue and the injunction allows for time for both sides to prepare arguments to that effect.

As for his use of the word "pervasive" - that concerns me - who gets to measure that? It's kind of like the word "art" and "pornography" - we all have our definitions and they are all different from each other's definition.

I think in the end, it'll come down to testing for cause and random drug testing by government officials will be deemed illegal with a much better definition of "safety sensitive" jobs. At least I hope so.

Generally I dont trust teachers with my child,

I trust them (as a group) even less now.

I am seeing this as a lose/ lose for teachers now. Either they will lose what little trust we have left in them or they will have to get tested any many of them will lose thier jobs.

Chisom wrote:Generally I dont trust teachers with my child,

I trust them (as a group) even less now.

I am seeing this as a lose/ lose for teachers now. Either they will lose what little trust we have left in them or they will have to get tested any many of them will lose thier jobs.

and why don't you trust teachers?

wvsasha wrote:
I disagree with the statement from the teacher you quoted but I also disagree with your interpretation.

First, let me say that I respect your disagreement with the teacher's quote.

Understand that my interpretation is how such quotes come across to the average "Joe".

I respect what you do(teaching our children).

My four children, all educated in the public school system, are doing quite well....... one in a grad program seeking her PHD in Chem, one in 2nd year of college at WVSU, one in the 10th grade and one in the 3rd grade(just for the record, Putnam Co. school system).
Except for a few minor issues, I have been pleased with all of the teachers that my children have been exposed to over the years.

My gut feeling is that the drug problem among teachers isn't any worse than what it is among the general population.

As a group, most of the teachers are not drug users...... most have the children's interest at heart.

My concern is for the "n"th % that are using drugs, and the children that are under their supervision.

If it will not be a self regulating entity(due to the union), I do not have a problem with drug testing teachers.

Understand my position:

I am against random drug testing of teachers.

I am for drug testing of all teachers and school personnel, because it is 'for the children" and it is our taxpayer money that is paying for our children's education.

WVsasha, I am sure that you would not be a happy camper, if you knew that your child's teacher was under the influence of drugs during school hours(legal or illegal drugs).

Constitutional rights aside, it should be considered a privilege to teach our children......... and that privilege should only be given to those not under the influence of any legal or illegal drugs.

It's just that simple.

wvsasha wrote:

Chisom wrote:Generally I dont trust teachers with my child,

I trust them (as a group) even less now.

I am seeing this as a lose/ lose for teachers now. Either they will lose what little trust we have left in them or they will have to get tested any many of them will lose thier jobs.

and why don't you trust teachers?

Basicly I have lost all respect for teachers in general. As a group I hear nothing but whining about how liitle they are paided and how much they work. All the while they make more than me and work fewer days and fewer hours on the those days they work. I watch the quallity of the education drop while the money spent goes up.

There is also an attitude of " I am better/smarter than you, since I have never left shcool and been dirtied by real life" I see in too many teachers, Esp in college professors.

My daughter's current teacher even told me she does not really undersatnd this English program they are teaching kids. How in the world can you teach something effective that you yourself dont really understand.

Teachers can/will no longer remove a distruptive student from shcool. They are also being forced to basicly teach to the dumbest kids in class which hurts the smarter kids. We teach to bring the lowest up to a standard instead of trying to build up our best and brightest ( you know the ones that will actully do something for the country someday).

And to all this. The "teachers are too good to be drug tested like everybody else (including myself)" I find I have lost ALL respect that I once had for them as a group.

In short I can not trust someone I do not respect.

Chisom wrote: Basicly I have lost all respect for teachers in general. As a group I hear nothing but whining about how liitle they are paided and how much they work. All the while they make more than me and work fewer days and fewer hours on the those days they work. I watch the quallity of the education drop while the money spent goes up.

What you hear is almost always from the Unions on the matter of pay raises. However, it is disheartening to many of us that live in border counties with our neighboring states to realize that they could have much fatter pay checks with less than 30 minute drives. And to realize that if it weren't for Mississippi and a few others, WV would (once again) be 50th in yet another category.

The state legislature sets the number of days for school calendar and our contracts hold the local BOEs to that. I think you would find very few teachers who would argue with you that the kids need more seat time in the classroom and would love to be able to just enforce the attendance requirements that we have now.

There is also an attitude of " I am better/smarter than you, since I have never left shcool and been dirtied by real life" I see in too many teachers, Esp in college professors.

And there are snotty people in all professions. Ask most any female the treatment she gets when she walks into a car garage or onto the floor of a car dealership.

My daughter's current teacher even told me she does not really undersatnd this English program they are teaching kids. How in the world can you teach something effective that you yourself dont really understand.

What grade is your daughter in? The only "program" that i can think of that would be frustrating to teach might be for the earlier grades (K-3) which is now seriously phonics based and if the teacher went through college when they were teaching us Whole Language crap, then the teacher has a point. However, it is up to her (and the school system) to ensure she is retrained.

Teachers can/will no longer remove a distruptive student from shcool.

We try. They get sent back to us and we get a slap on the wrist. Legislation prevents us from removing a student from the educational setting without providing equal opportunity for education. Some schools still have in-school suspension however, all too often the same students are in there day after day with no improvement and also missing out instruction. How is this helping anybody?

Legislation requires us to allow students who are suspended to make up their work with no penalty. (That was thanks to some legislatures' offspring who was suspended and was in danger of not graduating if not allowed to make up her work.) Therefore suspensions have become vacations.

They are also being forced to basicly teach to the dumbest kids in class which hurts the smarter kids. We teach to bring the lowest up to a standard instead of trying to build up our best and brightest ( you know the ones that will actully do something for the country someday).

and for a lot of that you can thank No Child Left Behind. There has been a lot of good come out of NCLB on my side of the fence (remember, I teach special education and it's great to actually have a classroom INSIDE the building now....) but as a parent, I agree that there's too much focus on the lower quartiles while not providing support and challenging the upper quartile students. My eldest daughter is in the gifted program - normally I'm not a fan of "pull-outs" for education - but it was the only way that she was going to be able to work with other bright children, on project-based instruction, and learning leadership skills. The general classroom just doesn't have the time, training, or resources to provide that for her. Unfortunately, she will exit the program at the end of this school year (WV doesn't provide gifted education for "regular" gifted students beyond the 8th grade.).

In short I can not trust someone I do not respect.

None of these are individual teachers faults. It comes from federal and state laws. A teacher can't decide on their own which children will be suspended, which program will be used to teach with this year, which children receive what extra services.

That being said - each teacher is in control of their own classroom environment and their own professional demeanor and development. If they can't control their classroom, by and large, then they need to quit. If they refuse to stay current with research, new findings, and comport themselves in public and private appropriately - then they need to quit.

I do find your paintbrush that you've swiped all of us with, rather broad. I will agree that there are those who need to quit - a long time ago. There have been idiots in the field and I know for a fact there still are. But maybe you could narrow your paint brush a bit too.