Heavy Hitters!

The State Fire Marshal has come up with another socialist idea right out of the Carl Marx handbook:

Fire chief proposes 'pension' as VFD incentive

Before we get into his ridiculous idea, let's take a look at what a volunteer fire dept is all about:

1... Volunteers are "supposed" to be willing to protect their own communities.

2... Men have been doing this since this country was formed, both as a way to help their communities and themselves.

3... When cities grew large enough, they formed both paid fire and police depts. There is a very important reason for this: Volunteers simply couldnt handle the types of fires a city would experience. Just gathering enough firefighters in time to save a building was out of the question.

4... Volunteer fire depts formed every 25 miles or so all over the nation. These were manned by people who took a serious interest in their communities. The people had their own bakes sales, raffles, and many other ways to make money to purchase equipment. They often received for free, the equipment the cities took out of service when new equipment was purchased.

THAT WAS THEN... THIS IS NOW:

1... They are having trouble recruiting firefighters in many communities. Why? Because people today simply dont give a damned about anything. They're so caught-up in their football and IPhones and drinking beer that they could care-less about their neighbors house.. or even their own burning down. After all, that's what insurance is for right?

2... You and I, no matter where we live pay a tax on our homeowners (and other insurance) that goes to these volunteer fire depts. The County then gives YOUR tax money to these volunteer fire depts. Many volunteer fire depts now have better equipment than some cities!

So now State Fire Marshal Sterling Lewis wnat to give them Pensions too?

Folks, the STATE (you and me) cannot continue to pay for every damned thing that some goofball dreams up as "a good idea" when in fact it's nothing more than YOU having to pay for what people in those communities REFUSE TO DO FOR THEMSELVES! It's time to stop this "we can fix anything with money" trip that these nutty officials are on, and tell people: GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO IT YOURSELF!

State Fire Marshal Sterling Lewis said he believes giving volunteer firefighters a pension-like benefit after they retire is the best idea he's heard to combat widespread staffing shortages.

"Nationwide, we are in a situation in the volunteer fire service where the number of people volunteering in the communities is dropping," Lewis said. "The benefit program is probably the best way to recruit and then retain those individuals."

Firefighter groups have been pushing lawmakers to create a program that would provide a monthly payment to volunteer firefighters who retire after at least 20 years of service. Efforts will intensify this month when legislators convene for their regular 60-day session.

The West Virginia State Fireman's Association plans to gather at the Capitol to get lawmakers' and Gov. Joe Manchin's attention on the night of the State of the State address Feb. 11.

More....
http://www.dailymail.com/News/statenews/200902010437

vol⋅un⋅teer 

A person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

To do charitable or helpful work without pay.

without payment (SYN: unpaid)

(from dictionary.com)

If you pay somebody, they are NOT a volunteer, by definiation. And, if the state is to HIRE people for rural fire service, then the law would require that these positions be made open to all under civil service, and require all sorts of time and attendence accounting and 1000 other laws, rules, and regulations.

I ask,are not these volunteer firemen have other jobs with pension benefits ? So if they recieve a state pension and have other jobs, that would quialify them for federal Social Security. would'nt it ? Would they be considered triple dippers in pension plans ? Kinda apples and oranges on this question, but I have problems with the state pension doubled dippers, especially with the state policemen..They retire ,then are re-hired back to a state job. And most of the time these state jobs are posted for private citizens to apply for, but for some strange reason a retired state policeman winds up with the state job !

I assume the citys of Charleston, South Charleston still do not pay into the federal Social Security plans for the citys firemen.....

SamC wrote:vol⋅un⋅teer 

A person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

To do charitable or helpful work without pay.

without payment (SYN: unpaid)

(from dictionary.com)

If you pay somebody, they are NOT a volunteer, by definiation. And, if the state is to HIRE people for rural fire service, then the law would require that these positions be made open to all under civil service, and require all sorts of time and attendence accounting and 1000 other laws, rules, and regulations.

SamC, you are always ahead of the curve on subjects such as this one. good reply post ! You evidently are well informed of past and present data..

The way all the talking heads on all of the media outlets are saying this bill may go through. This is just a start of what may become a real head ache. Down the road it will be in the same shape that the other pensions are. End the end it will cost the tax payers more and more.

The definition of "volunteer" has changed now. ACORN volunteers are paid, and about to recieve billions from us for committing voter fraud, teaching others how to commit voter fraud, and all sorts of other counter productive activities.

If I MUST pay volunteers, I would much rather pay volunteer firefighters than ACORN folks. Of course, I don't feel any compunction to pay a retirement income to anyone who has not earned it. Volunteer firefighters should have a retirement earned at their place of employment.

My take . this would certainly open up a "can of worms" for every "volunteer" program in the state, wheather its defined as a life saving organization or not.

Take the Civil Air Patrol........ volunteers ???...The list goes on..

But if this bill passes, it will not come under the federal ERISA law. (state govs. excempt )

Just a thought, What would stop volunteer fire departments from adding relatives or friends to this pension plan ? Would a volunteer be vested in this pension plan after five years of service ? Would a pension multiplier be used for this plan ? I believe the west va state pension plan was changed from a under defined pension, to a defined pension plan a couple of years ago. ( buy stock etc .of 20% of pension plans total value ). And if so,

Monday February 9, 2009

W.Va. pensions lost nearly $600m before meltdown

by The Associated Press
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- West Virginia's public pension funds lost nearly $600 million during the last budget year, months before the global financial crisis further shredded the state's investment portfolio.

http://www.dailymail.com/News/200902090401

Cops get paid. Judges get paid. County clerks get paid. You expect firefighters to volunteer. That's unethical.

GrandStrandGirl wrote:Cops get paid. Judges get paid. County clerks get paid. You expect firefighters to volunteer. That's unethical.

What's "unethical" about it? We expect volunteers to volunteer. We expect Boy Scout leaders to volunteer, too. Should they get gubmint pensions, too?

GrandStrandGirl wrote:Cops get paid. Judges get paid. County clerks get paid. You expect firefighters to volunteer. That's unethical.

Evidently the definition of the word "unethical" has changed as well...

I didn't say I expect "volunteers" to volunteer. Don't distort my words. I said "firefighters" to volunteer. These are highly-trained men and women. PAY THEM!

GrandStrandGirl wrote:I didn't say I expect "volunteers" to volunteer. Don't distort my words. I said "firefighters" to volunteer. These are highly-trained men and women. PAY THEM!

I will send my check in to pay the "volunteers" as soon as you show me proof that you have sent your check in.

IMHO, for what it is worth.....having been involved with both volunteer and professional fire departments for over 30 years, here is the way I see it.

As a general rule, the paid departments feel that they are better than any volunteer department out there and rightly so, they have the equipment and training to back up their position.

Most volunteer departments consist of both older and younger guys and gals from their communities.
Some of the older guys have been there for years..... some may have even been in the professional ranks at one time..... most of these older guys have seen everything there is to see as a fireman, from house to forest fires, to mulitple car crashes with fatalities.

They know, through their experience, the what, when, where of how to handle what is thrown at them.

It is the experience of these older members that is passed on to the newbies of the department through the training and the leadership from these "old guys".

The younger members of the these departments, for the most part, are wanna be professionals.

Many of these young recruits do have a sense of helping their community by being a volunteer, but they see the volunteer ranks, as their stepping stone to a career as a paid firefighter.

Some will make this transition, most will not.

The ones that do make the transisition soon forget their volunteer buddies, and the ones that don't, either give up the dream of being a professional firefighter, or eventually become one of the "old guys" who has seen it all.

Should they be given a pension for being a volunteer? NO

Each and everyone of the them have the right and ability to walk away from it anytime they feel they need.

Most of the ones that I know, never would just walk away, because it is the one thing in their lives that gives them a sense of community and belonging.

Today, times are different that they were 30 years ago. It is much harder to get an 18 year old interested in firefighting..... when there are so many video games yet to play.

Dangling a pension in front of an 18 year old will do absolutely nothing about the current lack of volunteers in the fire service.

Jerry old man are you a retired fireman on a pension plan ??
The solution to the issue is very simple County Fire dept
Can you say Metro Fire Department

Volunteers are Volunteers. That means "Doing it for free"... PERIOD.

If people want a good fire dept with 27/7 service, then they live in the CITY. Otherwise, they form their own VOLUNTEER Dept to protect their community, like it's always been since this nation was founded.

Thousands of people VOLUNTEER their services for free every day in this country. Volunteer fire depts are no different.

Jerry, don't tell me YOU get a pension but are saying others should not? Can you say "hypocrisy?" We know you can!

If a rural judge gets paid, if a rural county clerk gets paid, if a rural deputy gets paid, then pay the firefighters! Don't EXPECT them to volunteer!

GrandStrandGirl wrote:Jerry, don't tell me YOU get a pension but are saying others should not? Can you say "hypocrisy?" We know you can!

If a rural judge gets paid, if a rural county clerk gets paid, if a rural deputy gets paid, then pay the firefighters! Don't EXPECT them to volunteer!

I don't think she has a grasp on the reality of the situation.........